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Thread: Ronald Reagan

  1. #151
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    I disagree with you elizabeth. Reagan had to clean up the mess left by Jimmy Carter. Carter drove the country into the ground. The economy was stagnant, we had mass unemployment and inflation was out of control during the Carter administration. Carter micromanaged too much and thats what I think made him a horrific commander and cheif. Carter botched a rescue attempt to free the US embassy workers in Iran. The country had had enough. Mickey Mouse could have been on the democratic ticket and lost in 1980. It did take him 8 years but Reagan managed to turn the economy around and get people working again. Reagan beat Carter in the 1980 election by a landslide. Even Iran , as backwards as the government is/was knew Carter was a dismal failure , set the hostages free just minutes after Reagan was innurgrated as President. Reagan was far and away the best President weve had in modern times.

    IMO
    Last edited by Forever-27; 02-08-2011 at 10:11 PM.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever-27 View Post
    I disagree with you elizabeth. Reagan had to clean up the mess left by Jimmy Carter. Carter drove the country into the ground. The economy was stagnant, we had mass unemployment and inflation was out of control during the Carter administration. Carter micromanaged too much and thats what I think made him a horrific commander and cheif. Carter botched a rescue attempt to free the US embassy workers in Iran. The country had had enough. Muckey Mouse could have been on the democratic ticket and lost in 1980. It did take him 8 years but Reagan managed to turn the economy around and get people working again. Reagan beat Carter in the 1980 election by a landslide. Even Iran , as backwards as the government is/was knew Carter was a dismal failure , set the hostages free just minutes after Reagan was innurgrated as President. Reagan was far and away the best President weve had in modern times.

    IMO
    I agree! (and you didn't even mention Gas Lines during Carter - My parents could only get gas depending on what number their license plate ended with, Even Numbers on Mon-Wed-Fri, Odd Numbers on Tues-Thurs-Sat)
    Carter sent Navy Helicopters to rescue the Iranian hostages in the desert - the sand clogged the engine of 1 and it crashed, killing 8 Americans.
    Carter was THE MOST INEPT president EVER (imo)

  3. #153
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    Wow pat forgot about the gas lines during the carter years. I remember the red and green flags on each day depending on the number sceme of your car license plate. The lines were while miles long. Some stations just had NO GAS signs theyd put out. We had a big Cadillac back then and I cant tell you how many times my dad would comeback into the house, just about to leave for work, and someone had taken a screwdriver and punched a hole in his fuel tank and stolen the gas. This was 1978-1979 , somewhere back then.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    And in Reagan's circles in which he ran, the Good Ole Boys Network, they didn't think they would ever get it.....how many rich, white Republican men got AIDS/HIV??
    I'm assuming that you are suggesting that he Reagan didn't do more about AIDS because he and his friends were not at risk, really believe that?

    When AIDS was first identified it was found in a cluster of 5 homosexuals in Los Angeles. As the disease spread it was overwhelmingly confined to the gay community. Even as late as 2006 53% of the new reported cases are in the gay community.The press in 1982 even coined the term GRID, gay related immune deficency. The CDC was hard at work to confirm, contain, and identify the source.

    The point is, how does a president stand up and speak about a disease in the context of it being primarily a disease that affected gays, hemophiliacs and heroin users without sayiung as much. Should he leave that part out and lead everone to believe that they are just as much at risk as everyone else, causing even further panic?

    I understand the criticism and maybe some of it is warranted but it is so easy to sit here 30 years later and critisize when we know what it is, how it works, and all of the other particulars.

  5. #155
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    Forever 27, the reason the hostages in Iran were released when they were was because Reagan's people, before the election, made a deal with the Iranian government so they would not release the hostages until the election was over. Not only was it a terrible thing to do, delaying the hostage's release, it was also very much illegal.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by orionova View Post
    Forever 27, the reason the hostages in Iran were released when they were was because Reagan's people, before the election, made a deal with the Iranian government so they would not release the hostages until the election was over. Not only was it a terrible thing to do, delaying the hostage's release, it was also very much illegal.
    You say this like it is in the history book but in reality, The "October Surprise" theory has been investigated by:

    The House or Representatives
    The US Senate
    Newsweek
    The Village Voice
    New Republic

    All concluding that there was no credible evidence that it had occurred. Ofcourse there were some figures who provided testimony to the contrary but if you look at what they say, they always point to a piece of evidence here or something said there to corraborate their beliefs. Classic MO of conspiracy theorists.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by orionova View Post
    Forever 27, the reason the hostages in Iran were released when they were was because Reagan's people, before the election, made a deal with the Iranian government so they would not release the hostages until the election was over. Not only was it a terrible thing to do, delaying the hostage's release, it was also very much illegal.
    What is your source for this please?
    My gut feeling is that this is just a left-wing wish to denigrate a great President

  8. #158
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    I think iran just out and out hated carter. His failed covert attempt to free the embassy hostages only fueled the distrust and hate for him. Iran wanted to release the hostages but didn't want carter to be credited for it. Carter would have taken credit had they been released while he was in office. If you ever listen to reagans speeches and interviews, he said what he ment and ment what he said. No word games, no umm, ahh, umm , err ahh like so many others do , no dancing around to dodge the true questions. But anyways, i doubt reagan would scheme or knive behind the standing president ( carter ) just to win the 1980 election. Had reagan lost how much longer would iran have held the embassy workers hostage ? Iran isn't a country you can do thoes things with just as reagan wasn't the kind who would ever think to do such a thing. Its unethical and reagan loved america too much.

  9. #159
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    There's probably some left-wing smear saying Reagan connived with the USSR to break them up and tear down the Berlin Wall, too.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    I'm assuming that you are suggesting that he Reagan didn't do more about AIDS because he and his friends were not at risk, really believe that?

    When AIDS was first identified it was found in a cluster of 5 homosexuals in Los Angeles. As the disease spread it was overwhelmingly confined to the gay community. Even as late as 2006 53% of the new reported cases are in the gay community.The press in 1982 even coined the term GRID, gay related immune deficency. The CDC was hard at work to confirm, contain, and identify the source.

    The point is, how does a president stand up and speak about a disease in the context of it being primarily a disease that affected gays, hemophiliacs and heroin users without sayiung as much. Should he leave that part out and lead everone to believe that they are just as much at risk as everyone else, causing even further panic?

    I understand the criticism and maybe some of it is warranted but it is so easy to sit here 30 years later and critisize when we know what it is, how it works, and all of the other particulars.
    Respectfully, yes I do really believe that....

    I truly believe if AIDS targeted rich, white, heterosexual, male Republicans, Ronnie would have moved Heaven and earth to find a cure early on.....no doubt about it for me....

    Yes, it is easy to armchair quarterback it 30 years on.....but it took years for Reagan to even acknowledge AIDS at all, and yes, as a President, it should have been important for him to act as such and mention that AIDS is/was not strictly a "gay disease" (remember it also affected hemophiliacs and IV drug users too) and advocate some money to find a cure.....had that been done at an early stage, wonder if we would have the worldwide epidemic we have now?? I do understand the climate was different then, but just think what a step forward that might have propelled us towards understanding between people of different sexualities, not to mention in the fight against AIDS.....

    Just something to ponder....if you don't agree with me, that is fine too....
    Last edited by Elizabeth; 02-09-2011 at 04:49 PM. Reason: Addition

  11. #161
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    No Pat, what happened to Soviet Russia is proof that socialism / communism cannot work. Ich, bless his heart once quoted Thatcher by saying I think " Socialism is nice and all but the only problem is that eventually you run out of other peoples money. Ich is smart like that. As good as it was on the political scene for the Berlin wall to crumble, it made life for alot of people hard. Not having Russia to use as a crutch forced alot of iron curtain countries to fend for themselves and make their own decisions. These lands had not had to do these things in decades. The East german economy was in shambles once the wall came down. Same with the soviet states that morphed into their own individual countries.

    Im sorry, I have never met anybody whose ever had aids and ive never known anybody who has died from aids so ive never done any research on the subject.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    Respectfully, yes I do really believe that....


    Just something to ponder....if you don't agree with me, that is fine too....
    I appreciate the polite way you voice your opposition to what I have said. It makes it so much easier to have a discussion with you (I'm being completely sincere).

    I think Reagan could have done more but the CDC was on it and at that point no one really knew what AIDS was, just who it prodominately affected. Heck, the WHO didn't even get involved until April 1985.

    I really don't think it was anything as sinister as letting people die because he and his people were not part of the perceived risk group.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    Respectfully, yes I do really believe that....

    I truly believe if AIDS targeted rich, white, heterosexual, male Republicans, Ronnie would have moved Heaven and earth to find a cure early on.....no doubt about it for me....



    Just something to ponder....if you don't agree with me, that is fine too....
    It did target his friends. Reagan was part of the Hollywood community and had gay friends. Rock's boyfriend said that Reagan did visit Rock and called.
    I shall die, but that is all that I shall do for Death; I am not on his pay-roll.

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  14. #164
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    Starting at 8 pm Central on The History Channel is a 2 hour special on Reagan!
    A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

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    Firstly, I think Carter was a lousy president. However, if Reagan hadn't gutted his environmental work, we probably wouldn't be in the mess we are in with climate change and the fact that oil supplies are dwindling fast.

    Reagan did some good things. I am sorry that I got my facts wrong about the hostage situation in Iran when I was 8 years old. But please remember that Reagan was no saint. The Iran Contra affair happened with his knowledge. In case you aren't familiar with it, weapons were given to a terrorist organization with the unofficial knowledge of the president.

  16. #166
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    Actually its all in what you believe in , but I for one remember numerous " experts " warning everybody all through the 1970s saying we were going to be in a ice age by the year 2000, obiviously that never happened. Myself, I don't buy into climate change via people. But its about what you believe in. I still drive my old car and mow my lawns on spare the air days. Al gore makes too much money on the myth.

    We have lots of oil within our own country. But the enviromentalists won't let us tap any. I disagree, its not dwindling

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by orionova View Post
    Firstly, I think Carter was a lousy president. However, if Reagan hadn't gutted his environmental work, we probably wouldn't be in the mess we are in with climate change and the fact that oil supplies are dwindling fast.
    The climate change theory and Al Gores work is seriously suspect. The planet goes through natural cyclical changes. No one was around when we emerged from the last ice age and that was some real global warming. Non of this .04 degrees above the long term average crap.

    I'm just voicing my opinion on this and I certainly understand where you are coming from.

  18. #168
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    Random thought and a question that probably wont get answered.

    I love how suddenly conservative pundits and their followers know more about the climate change than scientist.

    Under which Presidents economic system did the United States turn from the world largest creditor to the the world's largest debtor? Those tax cuts had to get paid for somehow. It's sad that millionaires and billionaires with NO children are walking off with more tax credits than all of us.
    Last edited by JefeStone; 02-14-2011 at 02:11 PM.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by JefeStone View Post
    It's sad that millionaires and billionaires with NO children are walking off with more tax credits than all of us.
    Tax credits or deductions?

  20. #170
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    Gallup Poll: Reagan Is The Greatest U.S. President

    Americans Say Reagan Is The Greatest U.S. President

    PRINCETON, NJ -- Ahead of Presidents Day 2011, Americans are most likely to say Ronald Reagan was the nation's greatest president

    Reagan, Lincoln, or John F. Kennedy has been at the top of this "greatest president" list each time this question has been asked in eight surveys over the last 12 years.


  21. #171
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    Clear evidence that Americans are out of touch with reality. American schools and parents need to do a better job of teaching history. No wonder the GOP wants to do away with the Dept. of Education. Keep Americans stupid walmart shopping sheeple.The man was an actor and acted his way through about 6 years of his presidency...the last two years were a dementia induced stupor for him.

  22. #172
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    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...gay.html?cat=9

    Conservative group wants to replace Abe Lincoln on Mt. Rushmore with Ronald Reagan, because Abe may have been gay.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by JefeStone View Post
    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...gay.html?cat=9

    Conservative group wants to replace Abe Lincoln on Mt. Rushmore with Ronald Reagan, because Abe may have been gay.
    lol, that's ridiculous - will never happen, nor will it ever get into semi-serious discussion IMO.

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by JefeStone View Post
    Clear evidence that Americans are out of touch with reality. American schools and parents need to do a better job of teaching history. No wonder the GOP wants to do away with the Dept. of Education. Keep Americans stupid walmart shopping sheeple.The man was an actor and acted his way through about 6 years of his presidency...the last two years were a dementia induced stupor for him.

    Why not? It isn't as if you need a brain to spend money indiscriminately and give your highest offices away to those with "star quality". And it's such a successful system too. Why would you want to change? Who needs accessible health care, a reasonable national debt load and basic social awareness??

    The biggest problem in Canada is that our schools focus too much on Canadian history and not enough on the world at large. We're still leaps and bounds ahead of you guys though. What do you do? String together newsreal footage of Kennedy, Clinton and maybe Washington for good measure then ask the names of John Wayne movies on the final?

    Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it, and right now the US cannot handle any more fuck ups. Reagan was far from perfect. Why people constantly try to canonize HIM of all people is beyond me.
    You can't "nu uh" death. That's bad debating.

  25. #175
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    I am 52 so Reagan was really a President that brought pride back to being American.After Nixon,Ford and even Carter our government just smelled bad and we all felt a little dirty,it was not a good feeling.Carter was just unfit for Washington but we elected him because he was honest if nothing else.But Reagan gave us something back as Americans I will never forget,RIP.

  26. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by JefeStone View Post
    Clear evidence that Americans are out of touch with reality. American schools and parents need to do a better job of teaching history. No wonder the GOP wants to do away with the Dept. of Education. Keep Americans stupid walmart shopping sheeple.The man was an actor and acted his way through about 6 years of his presidency...the last two years were a dementia induced stupor for him.
    I don't know what the Dept of Education has to do with a better job of teaching history. All it does it add more bureacracy.
    Obama doesn't send his kids to public schools.
    The idea of it was brought up during Carter and Reagan tried to close it.
    The Feds are trying to duplicate the State Education Board’s functions and that is costing the tax-payers billions of dollars.
    Last edited by coconn04; 02-21-2011 at 10:27 AM.
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    President Obama can't send his daughters to a public school. Guarding them would be a logistical nightmare.

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by orionova View Post
    President Obama can't send his daughters to a public school. Guarding them would be a logistical nightmare.
    Amy Carter went to public school.
    The democratic party is high in the teachers unions.
    None of the current ranking politicians will send their kids to public school because they are so bad.
    Reagan was right in trying to destroy the department of education.
    Last edited by coconn04; 02-21-2011 at 03:59 PM.
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  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by coconn04 View Post
    Amy Carter went to public school.
    The democratic party is high in the teachers unions.
    None of the current ranking politicians won't sent their kids to public school because they are so bad.
    Reagan was right in trying to destroy the department of education.

    WTF???

  30. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by radiojane View Post
    Why not? It isn't as if you need a brain to spend money indiscriminately and give your highest offices away to those with "star quality". And it's such a successful system too. Why would you want to change? Who needs accessible health care, a reasonable national debt load and basic social awareness??

    The biggest problem in Canada is that our schools focus too much on Canadian history and not enough on the world at large. We're still leaps and bounds ahead of you guys though. What do you do? String together newsreal footage of Kennedy, Clinton and maybe Washington for good measure then ask the names of John Wayne movies on the final?

    Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it, and right now the US cannot handle any more fuck ups. Reagan was far from perfect. Why people constantly try to canonize HIM of all people is beyond me.

    Grade B actor, Grade A celebrity, Grade Z president.

    People who think he was great are morons.

  31. #181
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    Yea, we should have had 4 more years of carter,, or if only mondale had won in 84 our country would be so much better , huh?

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    What did Reagan do that was so great? Doubling the national debt or tripling the size of government? The USSR was crumbling apart long before Reagan took office, their economy and the Afghan war did it, but he get's credit for that? The only eveil empire Reagan took down was Grenada. How about Iran Contra, selling arms to a country that held Americans hostage just a few years before? What a patriot. How about pulling out of Lebanon with his tail between his legs? Ignoring the Aids epidemic? Funding and training the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden in his secret covert war?
    Last edited by JefeStone; 02-21-2011 at 11:56 PM.

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    As a brit, I have noticed that his "ghost" appears in alot of family guy episodes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JefeStone View Post
    What did Reagan do that was so great? Doubling the national debt or tripling the size of government? The USSR was crumbling apart long before Reagan took office, their economy and the Afghan war did it, but he get's credit for that? The only eveil empire Reagan took down was Grenada. How about Iran Contra, selling arms to a country that held Americans hostage just a few years before? What a patriot. How about pulling out of Lebanon with his tail between his legs? Ignoring the Aids epidemic? Funding and training the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden in his secret covert war?
    I worked for federal defense and he kept me employed.

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    I love Reagan - Best years of my life, lots of National Pride when he was President.
    I have never seen that before or since.
    It's no wonder he is consistently voted The Best President Ever!

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    I love that no one is denying what I posted, it just gets ignored by blind loyalty to a political party. Take pride in knowing that in 6 short years your hero turned the greatest country on earth from the largest creditor to the largest borrower. Hold you head up high!
    Last edited by JefeStone; 02-22-2011 at 08:38 AM.

  37. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by JefeStone View Post
    I love that no one is denying what I posted, it just gets ignored by blind loyalty to a political party. Take pride in knowing that in 6 short years your hero turned the greatest country on earth from the largest creditor to the largest borrower. Hold you head up high!
    I don't reply because I'm not sure where you are getting your information. I lived through Reagan's time and do not recall the media ever saying such (and know that they would). If Reagan did as you claim, I don't think he would be voted consistently The Best President Ever by the American populace. EVERY year.

    I'm registered Independent BTW. I don't have Blind Loyalty to any Party. I am Pro-Choice, Pro-Gun Control and Pro-Gay Rights.

  38. #188
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    As California governor Reagan froze state hiring, pushed for capitol punichment and froze business taxes in order to attract businesses to the state and thereby hire Californians. When he was governor we were in the era of mass unemployment and high inflation of the Nixon and Ford administrations. He rallied for Barry Goldwater who is the actual icon of conservatives. The state budget was balanced during Reagans time as governor. Once he left office Jerry Brown took over and started the gears in motion for the state to go bankrupt , hes partically responsible for the states red ink today.

    As President Reagan managed to lower inflation and unemployment left from the mess that was Carter. He believed and said that government isnt the solution to our countries problems, it is the problem. When he took office his first act was to cut federal taxes from carters disasterous 70% to 50% for the higher end earners and from 14% to 11% for lower wage earners.
    The air traffic controlers were on strike and Reagan announced that if they didnt return to work within 48 hours theyd all get canned. He knew if the air traffic in the country was crippled it would hurt the economy. Since these people are union, they have that union mentality that the union will protect them and they cannot be fired.

    Well Reagan issued an exceutive order to fire sum 12000 air traffic controlers.
    The country was so impressed with him, that Reagan went on to win every state except for Minnesota in the 1984 election beating Walter Mondale.


    It took Reagan 8 years but he managed to turn the economy around, lower unemployment and inflation.

    This is only what I can think of right now.

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    I am pro federal defense and law enforcement and that's another reason I liked Reagan--he was a cowboy. Bite me. (I'm not talking to you, Jefe, I'm just talking.)

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    Reagan raised taxes 11 times in 8 years. If he ran today, he'd not get elected because he wouldn't be considered 'Republican enough'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever-27 View Post
    As California governor Reagan froze state hiring, pushed for capitol punichment and froze business taxes in order to attract businesses to the state and thereby hire Californians. When he was governor we were in the era of mass unemployment and high inflation of the Nixon and Ford administrations. He rallied for Barry Goldwater who is the actual icon of conservatives. The state budget was balanced during Reagans time as governor. Once he left office Jerry Brown took over and started the gears in motion for the state to go bankrupt , hes partically responsible for the states red ink today.

    As President Reagan managed to lower inflation and unemployment left from the mess that was Carter. He believed and said that government isnt the solution to our countries problems, it is the problem. When he took office his first act was to cut federal taxes from carters disasterous 70% to 50% for the higher end earners and from 14% to 11% for lower wage earners.
    The air traffic controlers were on strike and Reagan announced that if they didnt return to work within 48 hours theyd all get canned. He knew if the air traffic in the country was crippled it would hurt the economy. Since these people are union, they have that union mentality that the union will protect them and they cannot be fired.

    Well Reagan issued an exceutive order to fire sum 12000 air traffic controlers.
    The country was so impressed with him, that Reagan went on to win every state except for Minnesota in the 1984 election beating Walter Mondale.


    It took Reagan 8 years but he managed to turn the economy around, lower unemployment and inflation.

    This is only what I can think of right now.
    8 years to turn the economy around, lower unemployment and inflation?

    He couldn't do it in just 2?
    2 years should have been plenty, right???

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    Turned the economy around? It was a fools paradise. We are paying for it now. Dick Cheney was wrong when he said, "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" Its funny that now, all of a sudden, with a dem in office, they suddenly do matter to republicans. What a joke.

    Wow look at that big jump at the beginning of the Reagan years.



    Wow, when did it start going down?

    Last edited by JefeStone; 02-23-2011 at 02:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JefeStone View Post
    Dick Cheney was wrong when he said, "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" Its funny that now, all of a sudden, with a dem in office, they suddenly do matter to republicans.

    So you would disagree with any administration running defecits regardless of affiliation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JefeStone View Post
    Clear evidence that Americans are out of touch with reality. American schools and parents need to do a better job of teaching history. No wonder the GOP wants to do away with the Dept. of Education. Keep Americans stupid walmart shopping sheeple.The man was an actor and acted his way through about 6 years of his presidency...the last two years were a dementia induced stupor for him.
    Hear ye, hear ye!

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    Wow, interesting that for about the first 2 minutes, S. Service thought he was alright and were going to head for White House. I know it was much more serious than the WH let on for years, but supposedly if they had gotten to hospital only minutes later he would have died!

    Thanks for posting!

  47. #197
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    421
    Quote Originally Posted by cash View Post
    both Nixon and Reagan had something to do with bringing down Communism, thereby freeing miilions in Eastern Europe. That alone deserves some respect. Americans can be spoiled at times.
    It's amazing that Reagan gets all the credit for bringing down the soviet empire. I guess Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford and Carter did nothing all those years!!!

  48. #198
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    421
    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    8 years to turn the economy around, lower unemployment and inflation?

    He couldn't do it in just 2?
    2 years should have been plenty, right???
    By increasing defense spending by enormous amounts he mortgaged our future while increasing the wealth of the military industrial complex. Cut off unemployment benefits with the highest percentage of unemployed since the great depression therefore showing the calculated ranks of unemployed as going down but only counted those getting benefits not those without. Opened the door to break all unions by "getting tough" with the air traffic controllers and showing that he was in the corner with business. A great actor that made most americans feel like he was our "grandad" and he knew best.

  49. #199
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,232
    I Love Reagan! I wish he were still around, we could definitely use him in the office instead of the vacation-loving, golf-outing, ncaa bracket-picking (men's and women's), goof-off we have in the White House now (well, in the White House for the next 22 months anyway ...)

  50. #200
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    18,397
    Quote Originally Posted by bulletnose View Post
    By increasing defense spending by enormous amounts he mortgaged our future while increasing the wealth of the military industrial complex. Cut off unemployment benefits with the highest percentage of unemployed since the great depression therefore showing the calculated ranks of unemployed as going down but only counted those getting benefits not those without. Opened the door to break all unions by "getting tough" with the air traffic controllers and showing that he was in the corner with business. A great actor that made most americans feel like he was our "grandad" and he knew best.
    On leaving office Ike warned that the greatest potential threat to America was going to come from the military industrial complex.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY
    Last edited by neilmpenny; 03-26-2011 at 09:44 AM.
    I am a sick puppy....woof woof!!!

    Carping the living shit out of the Diem. - Me!!
    http://www.pinterest.com/neilmpenny

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